TWIN PEAKS

[johnhrobinson]

that was everything I expected it to be and then some.
That long first leg on the m60 was an interesting planning move , looked easy on the map but turned out to be less so on the ground for many people including me .

Formed a good plan and than half way along, forgot what i was doing or how far i had gone and had to do a big relocate.....is this a symptom of my age or just lack of concentration

Any way managed to control the headless chicken..I always had a plan ( like baldric) but unfortunately too much of the wandering jew had entered my psyche for efficiency.

Also in spite of very expensive bifocals AND a thumb magnifier I find I cannot read the detail on that sort of map on the move so have to keep stopping to see what is there, and as for remembering the detail , see above. Ah the tribulations of the aging orienteer.
At least my legs are still working and the mud bath did wonders for the complexion.

[besty]

A really challenging area with a great middle distance course. But did anybody else find the heavy overprinting obscured some detail?

[70plus]

Did anybody else find the heavy overprinting obscured some detail?

The 'overprinting' was rather heavy. My only real problem with it was that the circle for one control (164) had been cut so enthusiastically that I couldn't be sure just where the centre was - so the description was valuable for a change

[EddieH]

KP I couldn't disagree with you more. The green was the best bit - it was not scratchy and unpleasant it just limited the view.

Hats off to the planners for thoughtful cutting of circles and lines.

[King Penguin]

I am not trying to say that the green should have been avoided altogether, just that I thought 6 / 18 controls in there was a little high. I see Eddie had 3 / 13, and course 1 had 3 / 24.

[tomtom]

I thought the green was the best bit. You could avoid the undergrowth if you used the marshes but you had to really concentrate. I liked how the race covered various terrain types, each requiring different skills to orienteer well in. Very tricky and highly enjoyable.

[pete.owens]

So let's raise the question. Would YOU be OK with being bussed in to a central point that gave access to this area for a bigger event?

Short answer:
Yes.

Longer answer:
This seems to be a particular issue in the Lakes with lots of superb areas that are only reachable via narrow roads with limited availablilty of flat dry ground suitable for parking a large number of cars. It is a shame that that the main criterion for choosing venues for major events seems to be the availability of a car park rather than the quality of the orienteering.

For serious events (BOC, JK 2015) we should be looking for the very best maps and terrain and then working out how to get competitors there. And if private cars are not a practical option then other modes of transport need to be used.

For the multi-day holiday event (Lakes 5 Day but also JK & BOC relays) then proximity to an event centre is important. If you have to travel a long way to reach an event it is good not to have to do any more driving once you get there. This is a major attraction for the White Rose and Twin Peak events. last years S6D also benefited from a compact collection of areas. I would much rather a short bus journey from an event centre than a long drive to the other end of the county.

We also need to remember that "accessible" is not the same thing as "car parking available". Many people - particularly the under 30s we are often worried about - do not have access to a car. Bussing from a place served by public transport can make an event more, rather than less accessible. So while this year's BOC and last year's JK were difficult to reach by car, they were actually some of the most accessible events in recent years for those dependant on public transport. I realise I am in a minority in this respect given how few took up the bus transport in Ireland last year.

[EddieH]

As bussing is expensive and if used needs to be incorporated into the budget, what is wrong, and could have been used at this years BOC for example with having bussing as a wet weather contingency.

With the weather at BOC we could in fact have easily parked in the Eskdale fields as used to happen in the past.

Yes you'd still need to order the buses and therefore need to pay them something - however it should be a bit less in the event that they are not needed. You'd also make the day less onerous for helpers.

Also looking at High Dam there are a number of fields that have been successfully used within a couple of km. What's wrong with having a mix? Local field for those with children, remoter fields for those that want to walk, and good parking with buses for those that don't.

[Oldman]

I think we should leave decisions such as this to the organisers whom I trust to consider and decide the best option based on the complete information that they have and we as competitors don't.

[EddieH]

I am not criticising or dictating. I am posing ideas, some of which may or may not be of interest to organisers of major events - a bit of remote brainstorming if you like. How can that be bad?

[The Cumbrian]

EddieH, how would you feel as a business operator if a customer had ordered eight buses 10 months in advance at a cost in excess of £2k to have that removed a week before? Having spent considerable time organising additional buses than your own company has, ensuring driver availability over a bank hoilday weekend and planning a timetable for 1500 people? Your suggestion of having a wet weather bus option is just not plausible I'm afraid.

There are further issues, one of which may just be relevant to Cumbria -the Cumbria Outdoor Events Safety Advisory Group. BOC2012 had to complete the consultation process with this body which acts on behalf of Cumbria County Council and is made up of representatives from major landowners (NT, LDNPA) Highways and Emergency services. They were formed after the Wet OMM in Borrowdale!

The consultation included a lot of preparation from ourselves and completion of their standard safety forms etc. Had we had two plans for car parking this would've entailed significant further work for the Coordinator and to a lesser extent the Organisers. The consultation did have benefits when later on dealing with unhappy locals in the area who thought they were about to have their Lakeland idyll spoiled by hordes of brightly clad orienteers bent on causing maximum disruption during a poorly organised event we could point them in the direction of COESAG who assured them that we really did know what we were doing!

The residents of Eskdale were also much happier with a bus service than they were with the thought of 800 cars driven by offcomers clogging up ther roads.

[Oldman]

I think we should leave decisions such as this to the organisers whom I trust to consider and decide the best option based on the complete information that they have and we as competitors don't.

I think the post by The Cumbrian proves my point.

[pete.owens]

But this is starting to get away from the original question.

ie NOT "In a particular case are buses the best option?"
NOT "Can we find a work around so that as many folk as possible can get there by car?"
BUT in general "IF the best area in terms of the orienteering can only be accessed by bus would you be prepared to use the bus or would you prefer the event to be relocated to a worse area with a car park?"

This is a real dilemma in the Lake District, which is full of brilliant orienteering terrain, but short of flat dry places to park large numbers of cars.

[graeme]

"IF the best area in terms of the orienteering can only be accessed by bus would you be prepared to use the bus or would you prefer the event to be relocated to a worse area with a car park?"

IF the main purpose of the day is quality orienteering (should be the case for BOC), then bus is OK. If the main purpose is a nice day out (should be the case for Twin Peaks), then not.
Similarly, its more important for the BOC to be fair (relatively little used, adequate but poorer area) than for Twin Peaks (heavily used, better area).

On all four counts they got it right.

[EddieH]

I was intending to let things lie, but it is clear that my motives have been misinterpreted for which I am truly sorry if anyone thinks I am criticising them.

Firstly this thread started with the Twin Peaks and went on to discuss a possible future JK at the same venue. My comments were in no way meant to say anything about the way BOC was handled. (I appreciate I confused the issue by referring to BOC, but it was meant as an example of something that might be worth thinking about, not in any way a comment on what was done there.)

Regarding the Cumbrian's dismissal of a bussing alternative that is a fair enough view. I would maintain that IF and ONLY IF the organisers consider that parking locally would be a preferable but not necessarily possibe in certain conditions option THEN they need to budget and plan for bussing.

Should they WISH TO they could order the busses and drivers on a need only basis. Yes the cost would need to cover the rental and drivers' wages as these could probably not be sold at the late hour that a decision not to use them would be made. However there must be a substantial amount of fuel which would be saved which should reduce the fee slightly. Anyhow even if the fee is the same, the option would still be there should the organisers wish.

Similarly a combination of local parking for priority users (such as those with young children) and buses for others MIGHT BE worth thinking about.

Please rest assured that whatever decision organisers take I am thoroughly grateful that they put on these events whatever system they use. Indded most people are as was shown by the good part that the vast majority took the cancellation of a day at the last Lakeland 5 day even before it became clear quite how stuffed the organisers were by late late changes from external bodies.