CSCup & Trophy

[LostAgain]

(Indeed, at the WCH qualifier a 1st year M18 runnimg up comfortably won the Blue by over 4 minutes.).

At the YHOA round a 1st Year M18 won the Brown for the Cup. Asking them to run Light Green is difficult unless of course you have no 16's.

[Red Adder]

The club size went up from 100 to 125 when BOF membership was expanded to include local club members.

An alternate way to look at club size could be number of members with a ranking (which possibly gives a better view on the real number of active members ??). At this weekend's EAOA CSC

large clubs

WAOC 85 ranked
NOR 85

small clubs

SOS 65 ranked
LOG 38
Chig 36
SuffOC 28
HAVOC 25

[Red Adder]

I don't think it was just big clubs that didn't like multiple rounds - I remember all sorts of problems of arranging fixtures mutually OK with both clubs, and then mobilising a team to travel. Whilst you generally meet the same clubs at the regional finals they often offer a better quality event with larger turnouts and more atmosphere than the simple club v club events of yesteryear.

[ifor]

(Indeed, at the WCH qualifier a 1st year M18 runnimg up comfortably won the Blue by over 4 minutes.).

At the YHOA round a 1st Year M18 won the Brown for the Cup. Asking them to run Light Green is difficult unless of course you have no 16's.

Second year M18 won the brown in the SWOA round as well. The first year M18 how had won light green went around the brown afterwards in a time that would of been 1st or 2nd. Having them on the light green is just stupid.

[SJC]

Having them on the light green is just stupid.

What seems to be being forgotten here is that the Compass Sport Cup is aimed at all members of the club, not just the best. Look at the results for the East Midlands / West Midlands round and Light Green was absolutely the right course for most of the M16s and 18s there. Put all of these onto Blue and they might as well not bother to turn up. I would rather see this competition continue to encourage as many participants as possible, not just target the elite in each age class.

[Mrs H]

Quite agree - its a club competition not an elite competition and the club captain must deploy his team as effectively as possible

[LostAgain]

Having them on the light green is just stupid.

Ifor that is a little harsh.

The Team Captain is able to run their M16's and M18's on the Blue or Brown if he/she wants to.

In SYO case the decision was made to run an M18 on the Brown (he won), and before other commitments got in the way we would also have run an M18 on the Blue. We chose to run an W18 on the Blue (she was our highest counter). All these juniors counted for us. Whereas if they had all run on the Light Green our junior counters would have been diluted.

Choice is appropriate. Light Green for the club inclusion of less experienced is good, and allowing the experienced to run up is also good.

[m4rk]

Having them on the light green is just stupid.

What seems to be being forgotten here is that the Compass Sport Cup is aimed at all members of the club, not just the best.

Except the novice M21 who has to run brown, obviously...

[mappingmum]

Hmm yes, well that's a very interesting point!

There's a lot of interesting debate here around the extremes of the competition. It's already been articulated that the top junior orienteers' default courses are those they have already progressed from in "normal" competition. I also believe fast ultra vets benefit positively from the course designation.

However, the designation of age classes to courses - where no allowance exists for short and long course runners - will inevitably result in both winners and losers. If the top juniors (amongst others) are the winners, who are the losers?

The weaker short course runners and novices are the losers here, I believe. Potentially to the point of exclusion. I never entered the CSC for many years after starting orienteering on the basis the [open] course was too long. Too long in that it would have resulted in a negative orienteering experience.

Club competitions like the CSC which define course designations by age will undoubtedly have winners and losers.

[andypat]

Thats one way of looking at it.
I have enjoyed the last two CST finals with Clyde despite being nowhere close to counting on the Brown course. I find the day is generally a good club experience regardless.

I am looking forward to being nowhere close to counting on the blue course at this years final!

[pgupnorth]

Interesting comments.

In March it is intended to email all the club captains and 2012 eliminator organisers to ask for feedback and suggestions as part of a mini review of the Competition, so if you have a view please feed it in to your club. The current courses and scorers is based on an age profile of all orienteers done a few years back, so that needs to be revisited.
Proposed AGM changes to membership may also impact on the methodology for deciding if a club is Trophy or Cup, if I read the new membership proposal correctly.

To answer one point earlier in the thread about "same old" rounds. All the clubs in 2012 went to compete in the round, they requested. I try and mix it up if practical, but it is not easy and making a club travel 130 miles instead of 75 does not go down well, nor is good for the carbon footprint of the sport or personal budgets.


Peter G
Compass Sport Cup Coordinator

[graeme]

Except the novice M21 who has to run brown, obviously...

I'd like to comment on this, but it so elegantly destroys the preceding pages of self-interested sophistry that I've nothing to add but bumping it back to the top.

In March it is intended to email all the club captains and 2012 eliminator organisers to ask for feedback and suggestions

Do you expect to get any?
I ask because I've been Scottish Competitions Convenor on and off for about 10 years. If ever I want to make a change, I'll do an open consultation of the SOA site which generates a lively response of conflicting opinions. And I'll ask clubs for a reply, which has generated one comment, ever*. In fact, when the SOA committee don't like something, they demand a club consultation which kicks in into the long grass for six months.


* Well, aside from the ones which say "that's very interesting, we'll have to put it to the committee and then we'll get back to you" probably after you're dead

[Electrocuted]

Thats one way of looking at it.
I have enjoyed the last two CST finals with Clyde despite being nowhere close to counting on the Brown course. I find the day is generally a good club experience regardless.

I am looking forward to being nowhere close to counting on the blue course at this years final!

Same with me. Two years ago I had a horrendous 'run' on blue women, but I knew I needed to finish to get a final counting score for the club as we didn't have many members down. I kept going, came last but still got 60 odd points for the club which made a difference to final standing.

I sneakily managed to get someone to take my place on blue last weekend but hopefully by this year's final I'll be up to doing blue again.