Eligibility to be a British Championship medallist

[awk]

if your second premise had read "and someone who is eligible to be a British citizen is eligible for a British passport", your argument would have been valid

Logic - "if A implies B and B implies C, then A implies C".

If you are eligible for British citizenship then you are ultimately eligible for a British passport.

I am very familiar with the rules of logic! The problem is that you are saying A implies B but C implies D. Eligibility does not mean that you actually have. There are plenty of things that I am eligible for, but unti I have got them, I can't take the next step. Somebody who is eligible for British citizenship should be able to get a British passport, but it's not guaranteed until they have it in their hand. After all, who is defining that eligiblity? if it's anybody other than those who decide to give you a passport, then that 'eligibility' is not worth a candle, and you'll only find that out when you apply.
Thus, if you are using these as your definitions, someone has to be either a British citizen or be a British passport holder, not just eligible, because neither organisers nor British Orienteering are in a position to make that judgement. (Not that I'm arguing these should be criteria).

[IanD]

All those who are eligible to represent GBR in WOC should be eligible to be British Champion. IOF must have some rules, like other international sports bodies, so take them as a lead (for all adult age groups, not sure about children), even if that involves grandparents.

What about people who have a British passport but choose to represent another country at the WOC? Under IOF rules, that makes them ineligible to represent Britain too. Would you rule them out of the British Champs?

[Wayward-O]

Try turning the question around. Someone living in this country but holding a passport from another country should not be eligible.

[IanD]

Try turning the question around. Someone living in this country but holding a passport from another country should not be eligible.

So you would forbid everyone with joint nationality from competing in the British Championship? Can't agree with that.

[AndyC]

Actually Wayward-O hasn't said that -just raised a variant of the issue.

There are a lot of "British" people who have the potential for a passport from another nation. Take Spike Miiligan (I don't think he ever orienteered) he was born in India while his Father (irish born) was serving in the British Army there- he lost British Nationality on a technicality , took up his Irish option and later became Australian. However for a long period he was a British resident by choice and association.
I'd have had him eligible for a BC medal.
likewise Joanna Lumley and David Gower were I think born in India.

Now Zola Budd??

[pigweed]

As someone who's never likely to be crown British Champion at any age class in orienteering I'm not bothered one way or the other who is and what their passport, if any, says.

I think that to keep going on about nailing down strict eligibility requirements will start to look as silly as the US "Birther" debates.

The requirement should be simple yet all this talk of passports just muddies things.

[LostAgain]

I think the Passport issue is irrelevant.

It should ony encompass those that are entitled to British Citizenship.

If challenged it is for the competitor to prove they are entitled not the Organised to prove they are not.

[graeme]

So I've been bitter about this for over 20 years since the Americans wouldn't let me run a relay for my US club.
If by demanding a medal I caused a protest against myself which clarifies this rule, that's fine by me. I'm not bothered about the medal, but the idea that arnold's teammates on a SLOW relay team would be non-comp is appalling.
See attackpoint for my personal views on who deserved the medals... http://www.attackpoint.org/viewlog.jsp/ ... 2011-04-10

It would, however, be absurd to have a rule where I would be expected to prove that arnold wasn't eligible for a British Passport.

[o-a]

Could not agree more with Graeme...

To have a rule you cannot enforce (how do you prove eligibility for a passport?), does not make any sense. Either you ask for passports and check them or you ask for BOF membership (or x years continuous membership to exclude short-term visitors), which should be really easy to check on the database (and might help to keep the renewal rate up).

There are several reasons why somebody who's eligible to do it might not chose to naturalise and get a British passport (and if it is only because they don't see the point in paying all the fees involved to do it), but at the same time live and work in Britain for >10 years, being married to a Brit, having British children, planning courses for BOC and JK. Not giving this person a British champs medals if he happened to have a good enough run seems not the right thing to me.

[Spookster]

I think the Passport issue is irrelevant.

It should ony encompass those that are entitled to British Citizenship.

Well, here's what the UK Border Agency says about British Citizenship. Interestingly they say "The most acceptable evidence of British citizenship is a British passport."

[Snail]

Either you ask for passports and check them or you ask for BOF membership

... or you do what many other countries do, and just ask on the entry form "Are you eligible for the British Championships?" Thus putting the onus on the competitor to make the correct declaration according to whatever the rules are from time to time.

[Kitch]

I think it should be any member of BOF
or BO

anything else is just arbitrary and petty in my opinion

[graeme]

Not you then?

[Kitch]

no not I