Junior Courses at the city of London Race

[DaveR]

Homer:

However, I wonder how many urban events are going to offer courses for U16's. I'm currently involved with Controlling an Urban event in the autumn and we are agonising over whether it will be possible to accept entries from U16's for any course.

I think this is a very serious problem. There are many urban maps where sticking within the letter of this "ruling" will be either impossible or lead to a short and rather easy course with no attraction for competent U16s. I think this will come close to killing urban orienteering for the U16s. It is certainly stopping me mapping a nice nearby area where crossing minor roads on a housing estate would be inevitable on all but the shortest course. It will also stop my club putting on small urban training events as many of our keen members are definitely U16. Yes, there are some work arounds that are possible in some cases but this is at the expense of limited courses and yet more effort on the part of planners and organisers.

I also worry that a major change to the status quo is being imposed and accepted without obvious signs that its implications have been realised and that major efforts have been made to change it to something more reasonable. It may well be that major efforts have been made behind the scenes, in which case I apologise to those whose work is hidden and unrewarded, but I remain to be convinced that this change has been fought as hard as it could/should have been.

[graeme]

There is a bit of missing the big picture here, which is that...

BOF insurance is has proved very lucrative for the insurance company.

I'm not suggesting going uninsured, but if BOF stated the cover we need, there would be money to be made (by the insurer) and given that, a company could surely be found to take our cash. Insurers may be illogical, but they're not stupid!

[PhilJ]

Thinking back not to far in the past - didn't GB send a team of M/W16's to EYOC and they completed in the Sprint race. Looking at those courses they certainly crossed many roads. So if we are to be competitive at this discipline how the heck does BO suggest our juniors train for such events. I may have missed the fine detail of this new "rule" but is it just 1st year 16's that are denied a run or is it all 16's.

Makes little difference really as to compete at an international level i'd have thought you'd need more than 1 year at Sprint experience to be a contender - another backward step?

Certainly for us as a family if we all can't compete what's the point in going, remember the good ol' days - Orienteering - A Sport for All (ish)

[Scott]

IOF rules (actually, it's the ISSOM specification rather than the rules, which is a little weird) require sprint areas to be closed to traffic for the duration of the event, so traffic won't be an issue at international competitions. I think this is why the JK sprint (now often nominated as a WRE) is normally campus-based.

To be honest, awesome events though London and the other big "urban" races are, I'm not sure how relevant they are to sprint orienteering - the terrain is similar, but the style of planning and physical demands tend to be pretty different. "Proper" sprint races in the UK are still pretty rare.

2.4 Traffic must be kept out of sprint orienteering areas

Traffic that can influence the results cannot be allowed in a competition area for sprint orienteering, for fairness and safety reasons.

A collision between a person and a car, even at a moderate speed, can cause injury or death. Neither drivers nor competitors are fully aware of each other during a competition. Car traffic makes serious accidents possible, and this must be avoided in orienteering events.

It is not possible to represent the variable characteristics of traffic volumes that affect the route choice of the competitor on an orienteering map. It is therefore not possible to guarantee fair conditions for all competitors with traffic in the terrain. Therefore, sprint orienteering events shall be staged only where traffic can be kept out.

The organisers should consider the following measures:
Halting of traffic (closing of roads).
Restricting traffic (controlled by policemen).
Construction of temporary overpasses (e.g. bridges).
Separating competitors from pedestrians and spectators by the use of tape or barriers.

If such measures are necessary but not possible then the chosen area is not suitable for sprint orienteering.

[PhilJ]

Fair point Scott, but doesn't that mean that the top Juniors will only get a chance to run a proper Sprint once a year at the JK and by not allowing them to run in urban races on ISSOM drawn maps again limit their experience of mapping styles, course legs etc and therefore their chances at international events, thought we were all about MP3. Not sure the style of mapping is that different by looking at the EYOC sprint maps and the COL map from last year, surely they are both drawn to ISSOM standards.

[Electrocuted]

I'm not suggesting going uninsured, but if BOF stated the cover we need, there would be money to be made (by the insurer) and given that, a company could surely be found to take our cash. Insurers may be illogical, but they're not stupid!

I think that's an important point - have BOF actually tried to get cover for U16s in urban events?

After all, when a 13 year old can have a job (paper round) that requires them to cross roads as part of that job, I'm quite sure cover could be found somewhere.

PADI teach kids their open water diver course from age 10.

[Scott]

PhilJ - You are right that COL and most other "urban" races are drawn to the same ISSOM standards - people tend to take the sensible approach and quietly ignore the bit about needing to be traffic-free. So urban races do give exposure to the ISSOM mapping style, which is pretty important for international success.

My point was more that the long 40-minute urban races (affected by traffic) are technically different from 15-minute sprint races - it's a bit like the difference between "long" and "middle" forest orienteering.

I really enjoy long urban races, but the nature of both the terrain and planning is such that you don't (usually) get the same sustained technical intensity as at a good sprint race - urban races normally feature a lot more dead running that you can use to plan ahead, and block streets where actually executing your route doesn't require much concentration.

I'm personally a big fan of short, sharp sprint races, and there are plenty of traffic-free (or minimal-traffic) university and college campuses that would make awesome sprint areas - perhaps the new rule will have the unintended consequence that more clubs map these and use them for 15-min sprint events

[Scott]

After all, when a 13 year old can have a job (paper round) that requires them to cross roads as part of that job, I'm quite sure cover could be found somewhere.

PADI teach kids their open water diver course from age 10.

I guess the point is that kids on paper rounds aren't normally racing, and open-water divers are less likely to cause injury/death to non-participants than someone who runs out in front of a car and causes the driver to swerve...

But yes, it would be interesting to know whether/what insurance alternatives have been investigated.

[jab]

IOF rules (actually, it's the ISSOM specification rather than the rules, which is a little weird) require sprint areas to be closed to traffic for the duration of the event, so traffic won't be an issue at international competitions. I think this is why the JK sprint (now often nominated as a WRE) is normally campus-based.

Roads at EYOC sprint weren't closed to traffic. There were police at some of the road crossings but not all and the traffic was moving at more than 10 miles an hour. The youngest GB competitor was 14 - this means that it is impossible for that athlete to have any race preparation under similar conditions before EYOC next year (if selected).

[PhilJ]

Thanks jab: so my point is how do we square the cirlcle, BO has the ambition for more podiums places but the juniors are denied access to run at events to perform at the top level internationally, podiums and results are linked to funding yet the insurance policies BO are signing up to are restrictive.

Maybe a review of the BO insurance policy and who BO insure events with is needed as if we don't get the results won't we be in a worse off position when we try to tender for more funding for sports councils?

Everyone knows that funding is harder to get these days and will get harder so surely in the long term interest of the sport we have to make the sport more accessible not less.

[Slowtochide]

Well I certainly seem to have started quite a thread with my posting
A couple of points
1) Re Nopesport Junior points at CoL race. I am happy for them to be allocated however the Roger etc choose. Just tell me what words I should use to tell people the system and I'll post them
2) Yes, planning Junior courses to meet the letter of the (insurance) law will be difficult but we will plan it this year at CoL by using a second start and I think that we can do it for the planned venues for 2011 and 2012 - but with extra effort. A pain but since I agree with the need to encourage juniors we will do whatever we can
3) Yes, I would expect BOF to see if they can get cover which extends downwards the age that can cross (risk assessed) roads

[Roger]

1) Re Nopesport Junior points at CoL race. I am happy for them to be allocated however the Roger etc choose. Just tell me what words I should use to tell people the system and I'll post them

Thanks for making it clear already that the '16-' course is open to people who are 16 or over. Suggested text:
"Nopesport Urban League Points for the junior categories will be allocated first to any juniors (M/W18-) running the Men's Open and Women's Open courses, and then in descending order to juniors (whether 16 years old or not) running the 'Juniors (16-)' course."