Harvester Relays - Predictions?

[andypat]

As someone who is nowhere near good enough to get into a competitive team (and therefore someone to whom the Harvester is not on the agenda). I think its sucha commitment and acheivement to take part in, it would be a shame if it was "dumbed down" to my level. The incentive for people to travel is that its such a well known event and a great acheivement to win. If it was made easier with a view to more people coming, there would be a comparative reduction in the prestige of winning, with the possible outcome that all youd get were more local but less quality orienteers coming dependent on where it was held. Keep it tough and make it worth winning I say (from the sidelines...)

[ba-ba]

...but Jukola has all kinds of abilities running it (including the once-a-year-orienteers) and that's hardly 'dumbed down'! (or is it?)
The introduction of a trophy for the first team not in the handicap/junior/women's race on the B course will attract more teams in the future I hope. With a higer percentage of lower Td courses it's ideal for smaller clubs/coalitions/introduction to nightO. I also think that the orange leg would be great for 'adventure racers' - although maybe making it more of a red might appeal a bit more (23mins is a bit short for 'adventure racers', although the normal 5+hours may be a bit excessive )

[SeanC]

I'll have to check, but I think the Saxons trophy for best not women/handicap/junior on the B is a one off, in that it's not a change to the rules. At least if it was, I'm pretty sure it wasn't discussed at a relevant BOF committee meeting (but maybe by email)?

Doesn't stop anyone offering it next year, and/or seeking to get the rules altered.

AndyPat - I assume you are talking about the A course?

[ba-ba]

aye, it was a one off (I've already dibsed it ) but I think it should become a more permanent fixture - even if each organising club puts up a different trophy each year.

[graeme]

There are several suggestions which are distinct.

Firstly, allow two people instead of one to run each lap. This isn't dumbing down at all. The winning clubs will still have the best possible runners in the smallest possible teams. It simply enables clubs with non-multiple-of-seven people to compete. I'm all for it.

Second, include TD3 courses. This is sort-of dumbing down, but not really. A good TD3 course offers safe but slower routes and reliable catching features: top runners wont use these. A clean run on the fastest line on a TD3 course could well require consistent TD5 skills.

Third, prizes for winning B. This really is dumbing down. Numbers aside, any team capable of winning B is well capable of competing on A, by offering prizes you're just diluting the A-field.

I'm intrigued to see what shuoc think would be worth giving a trophy for. First team comprising only those under thirty?

Incidently, from the rules...
4.2.3 The handicap system is an excellent way of matching competitive teams where
clubs have strengths in different classes. Except for those for women and juniors
(two groups to be particularly encouraged) it should be the only way of classifying
non-open classes – no ‘veterans’, no ‘only one M21’ and definitely no ‘B Open’.

Graeme (described as "night-fearing" by CompassSport, but who once ran a fastest night leg at the Harvester ... on the 2.5km TD2 course!)

[SeanC]

Another idea to encourage more to the Harvesters..

I'm assuming that what puts some of the less experienced off the harvesters is the fear of not finding controls (especially at night) leading to a long dispiriting search (or number of searches), or a mispunch, or a retirement. The latter options end up disqualifying the team not just the individual, which would surely deter many?

How about a time penality for each control missed/mispunched? To keep the relay in sequence the time penality could even be a formula 1 style pit stop. Eg a later runner dibs to start, then has to wait X minutes for the time penality to expire. This is definately dumbing down, but would it be OK on the B course?

[King Penguin]

Didn't OUOC/JOK do something similar this year? I believe they shared the final 12k lap between 3 runners swapping the SI Card over at the spectator control.

OUOC lost one runner through injury late on Friday / early on Saturday and could not find a replacement in time. The remaining 6 each ran one of the first 6 legs and 3 each then ran a third of leg 7, changing over at the 2 visits to the spectator control.

JOK lost one runner late on Friday, recalled to his open club team. A replacement was found (thanks, Paul), but another runner had to withdraw later on Saturday through illness.
One of the remaining 6 volunteered to run both legs 2 and 3. He had a good run on leg 2 but not surprisingly faded towards the end of leg 3.

Both are therefore in the results as non-comp, even though all 7 legs were completed.
Personally I suspect the disadvantage of running twice is greater than the advantage of having visited some of the controls before, esp. in the dark.

[andypat]

AndyPat - I assume you are talking about the A course?

Yes - the A course. I dont recall our club ever talking about sending a team for the B course. The better orienters would probably want to do the A course, and I think it would be hard to find 5 at my sort of level prepared to travel. Now if we were to put it on up here.......

[Neil M40]

Both are therefore in the results as non-comp, even though all 7 legs were completed.
Personally I suspect the disadvantage of running twice is greater than the advantage of having visited some of the controls before, esp. in the dark.

But there is possibly a big advantage in having your best runner do two legs if he is a lot better than your 7th best runner.

A long time ago people would try and do all 7 legs - I remember Andy Lewsley doing it one year, and I think others have tried.

[King Penguin]

But there is possibly a big advantage in having your best runner do two legs if he is a lot better than your 7th best runner.

Fair point !

[HOCOLITE]

I had a 'nightmare' a couple of years ago in the Chilterns I found 1& 2 but could not find a crossing point on a wall in the dark I think I eventually went the length of the wall and round the end so was even more confused. To confirm my position I went almost back to no.1. By this time my confidence and guilt at the time I'd been out led me to find the shortest route back to the spectator control (and retiral), so my next runner could go out in the dark. If I knew that they could go out and run in line with their expectations I probably would have continued on my course as I rarely quit.
I must say I have steered away from taking part on night legs since, I'd rather do the dawn TD 3 and let others do the night. In fact I have just gone as driver in the past as long distance events do cause problems with fatigue for the return journey.

[Blanka]

I haven't read the whole thread here so apologies if I'm repeating somebody else.

For me, the main reason that puts me off the Harvester is the fact that it takes up all weekend - travelling on Saturday, then run at 3am or thereabouts, getting hardly any sleep and then be "knocked out" for most of Sunday. I'd much rather do a normal day event (or even night event) one of the days and spend the other weekend day doing something else. This view is even stronger since I have been working, have little time to relax during the week and actually quite like some downtime during the weekend!